Teaching Kids to Love Cooking and Eating Real Food with Sally Sampson
Today, we are talking to a real-life cookbook author all about how to get your kids to eat healthy! We are constantly getting questions from parents about how to help their kids to eat better. It can be tricky, especially when kids are surrounded by friends who maybe don’t eat the same way they do at home. Today, we talk to Sally Sampson from Chop Chop Family Magazine all about how to get your kids to love cooking!
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Juna [00:00:01] So you guys know that we love to get episode suggestions from you. And one of the most common things that we get asked is about helping kids to eat better and helping kids to cook. Which, to be honest, I've never thought of because I don't have a child. But honestly, seeing all the adults my age that don't know how to cook. It is quite a relevant topic even to me.
Eddie [00:00:23] Okay, yes, yes, it's relevant to all of us. And and these are really important questions. It's not just having the kids cook, which is part of the answer. But but how do you just deal with what the kid wants and doesn't want? And are you making decisions for them and they're not going to have the broccoli in there for what? No dessert or no food, or I.
Juna [00:00:44] Just want to say me and my sisters are such picky eaters that my mom would make like three different dinners and they were all like the same thing, but there was variations on each dish. It's too crazy to even explain, but like, I wouldn't drink milk, I would only drink almond milk, and then my middle sister would only drink whole milk. And then Wendy was just like, it was great.
Eddie [00:01:01] Thank God your mom is organizing my mom. God bless her soul.
Juna [00:01:05] She like honestly just put up with so much. So if you don't want to have really annoying bratty kids, this is the episode for you to listen to you. On today's episode, How to Get Your Kids to Love Healthy food and to love cooking and what to do if you yourself don't like cooking but you want your kids to eat really well.
Eddie [00:01:26] I'm Juniata and I'm Doctor Eddie Phillips, associate professor at Harvard Medical School.
Juna [00:01:31] And you're listening to food. We Need to Talk, the only health podcast that makes sure your kids don't turn out to be brats like me. Welcome to another episode. Today we are joined by Sally Sampson and Sally. Do you want to introduce yourself and like what you do?
Speaker 3 [00:01:53] Sure. I am the founder of Chopped Up Family, which is the publisher of Chop Chop, the fun cooking magazine for families. Chop chop is a 48 page full color magazine that is distributed nationally in English and in Spanish to pediatricians, community health centers, snap with schools, after schools. Basically, wherever you find children, the magazine.
Eddie [00:02:20] Find them where they.
Sally [00:02:21] Are. Exactly. The magazine is focused on getting kids to cook real food with the adults in their lives, and we think everything can be learned through the lens of food and cooking. So we teach nutritional literacy, financial literacy, math, science. So all those things are involved in cooking. So we're trying to get kids interested in cooking wherever they are. So maybe you have a kid who's just really interested in science. When we talk about fermentation, then they get interested, that sort of thing.
Eddie [00:02:57] That's so cool. So we interview lots of people who've got like PhDs and MDS and all sorts. So how did you get into this?
Sally [00:03:04] I am none of those things. I have no cooking background. I have no writing background.
Eddie [00:03:10] Perfect, perfect. Have you ever met a kid?
Sally [00:03:14] I have two, but they're grown now. How did I get into it? I got into it because I was a cookbook writer, and I have a child with a chronic illness, and I started, to just get really interested in health care. And the more I learned about health care, the more I saw that doctors. No offense.
Eddie [00:03:35] Really did it. Hello, Sally. Hello.
Sally [00:03:38] I really didn't know a whole lot about healthy eating. And so the original idea was to take my skills as a cookbook writer and use them for good. So basically, to get doctors to prescribe cooking during well-child visits.
Eddie [00:03:54] And this started about more than ten years ago.
Sally [00:03:57] Now 2010.
Eddie [00:03:58] 2010 okay. And then and so it launched as a magazine that's famously in doctors and pediatricians offices. So people picking them up. Yes. Reading while they're waiting for this doctor who's not going to talk to them about cooking.
Sally [00:04:11] No actually.
Eddie [00:04:13] Yeah.
Sally [00:04:13] Well, yes. And really, what we consider the best practice is for the doctor to hand the magazine to the child. So maybe they're just talking about whatever. Then the doctor says, hey, are you interested in cooking? Or maybe the doctor opens up to a recipe and says, you know, I made this last night with my son. This is super cool. Why don't you do it and then report back next time?
Eddie [00:04:40] Wow.
Juna [00:04:42] So I have a question. I think eating real foods can be tough, even as an adult, because there's just a lot of, like, really yummy foods that are just good for you everywhere. Very easily available. And I feel like I still try to eat real foods because I know they're good for me. And I know that if I eat enough of them, I do think they taste really good. But if you're a child and there's like broccoli or there's, you know, chips, how do you get them to be interested in real food when there's all these other things that are so much more tantalizing? It seems like.
Sally [00:05:19] My teaching them to cook because. So think about you're seven years old and you're in school and you're in your art class, and you do make a drawing, right? You want to bring the drawing home and show your parents, and you want to hang it on the refrigerator. And it's, you know, this great thing. Cooking is kind of the same thing. You make a smoothie, you make a salad, you're proud of this thing that you created. And so you bring it home. So it just starts to kind of excuse me, but feed on itself, you know, it. It's like a virtuous cycle. So you make this thing, somebody says, that's this really cool thing that you did. Aren't you clever? Isn't it delicious? And also, what we find is that kids become sort of the role model for the parent. So if you have a kid who's interested and the kid says, hey, I want to roast carrots. The parent is going to be hard pressed not to do it. It's not like we're doing lobster and sirloin. We're very focused on inexpensive ingredients. And so the kid says, can we roast carrots? And then they do that together and the child is proud. So does that answer your question?
Juna [00:06:33] Yes, I think so. I've seen like, in movies and TV shows, when kids don't like vegetables, they'll like get them to grow them in the garden, and then they're excited to eat them because they grew them themselves.
Sally [00:06:43] Yep. It's the same idea. Yeah.
Eddie [00:06:45] They, I heard. One person speaking. This is a chef doctor who was trying to engage kids, and they said something along the lines of like, if you offer a kale chip to a kid, your chances of getting them to eat is, you know, nil. If they make the kale chips, the chances of them sharing with you is pretty low. Like, oh, that's so funny. You know, like, they like, these are mine. You could try one and. Yeah. And they, they give you like they break off a half.
Sally [00:07:13] And so we closed our office during the pandemic and, but we used to do cooking classes. And the cooking classes were fascinating because we really did the cooking classes sort of as a laboratory for the magazine, like. So we think this is a really cool idea. Is a kid going to think it's a cool idea? Even when I wasn't teaching, I would sort of hang out and watch the kids reaction. Literally 100% of the time the kids were happy to cook almost anything. And we did this. This is really my favorite thing, which was we have these, a we have it in book form and we have it in card form. It's called Edible Alphabet. It's for really 2 to 4 year olds. It's like educational recipes and activities to do in the kitchen. Anyway. So A is for avocado, B is for Barry, F was for fish and so for fish. We did anchovies. Oh my tuna and sardines. And the kids are at the table and they're opening up the cans of staff and we're having them do something and they're tasting everything by itself. And the parents are backing away. They're like, seriously backing away, making faces. The kids have no problem with it. They're tasting everything.
Eddie [00:08:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're making.
Sally [00:08:38] And so the kids don't come into stuff and with an attitude like, oh, this is stinky. They don't think. I mean, I'm not saying no kid is going to think.
Eddie [00:08:48] Yeah, yeah.
Sally [00:08:48] Something is stinky, but they don't have all the attitudes and all the preconceptions that we have. So they're like eating it. And the parents again are just like their eyes are bugging out and.
Eddie [00:09:01] Stand back at an anchovy.
Sally [00:09:03] Exactly. It was a great experience because the kids are just curious. So I think that's why cooking is so powerful because it is a little bit like art. It's creative, it's interesting, it's science. It's so many things.
Eddie [00:09:19] Can you so you mentioned that the book The Edible Alphabet is for the two and four year olds. Can you go through sort of age appropriate activities for kids like a two year olds? I've maybe I've seen this candied dough. Yeah, right. I mean that and the two year old and all of us can eat. Oh yes. But, stirring soup. Like, what age is that and what age do you plan a meal?
Sally [00:09:42] So we say start as soon as the kid is, like in one of the. What are those things called? You know, the seats?
Eddie [00:09:50] Yeah, yeah.
Sally [00:09:51] Put the kid on the counter and just monologue what you're doing. The kid's not even verbal. You say, I'm making a salad. I'm putting the romaine in here. So you just monologue through the whole thing. The kids just sitting there hearing your.
Eddie [00:10:03] Voice and getting.
Sally [00:10:04] Interested. And then when they get a little bit older, maybe you say, can you add the cherry tomatoes to the salad? And you give them cherry tomatoes and depending on their age, maybe you you count them out with them. So you start with like the most minute things and then you can like we would stay away from the stove when they're super, super little. But they can certainly mix. They can certainly, you know, so when my kids were little, they were in preschool and I was always testing recipes. And I said to the head of the preschool, you know, I have to be honest, I find it very frustrating to cook with my kids because the place is a mess. There's stuff on the floor, stuff doesn't turn out. And she was like, do what they do on cooking shows. Like, if you really must have the thing already prepared somewhere else. And so when you're cooking with your kids, you just don't sweat it, you know? Yeah. But I think that's one of the things as the adult, you have to just be like, whatever. Like, so if we don't end up with cherry tomatoes in the salad, it's okay, or you make a separate one. But I think you, you know, you get the kid to engage in the most simple ways in the beginning and then you just keep adding. I mean, we let kids use sharp knives. Sharp knives are safer than knives. Oh for sure, right? I don't I mean, I think maybe one kid cut themselves and we don't make a big deal out of it. It's like, here's a Band-Aid. You know, we don't do we don't do any cookies, we don't do cakes, we don't do sugary things. And so those things are really easy to get kids to make. Right. So if you say to. Any child. Let's make cookies. That's easy. But in our case, we're like, let's make soup, you know? Or one of the things we also say is take your kid to the grocery store and say, pick out any fruit you want, pick out any vegetable you want, and then let's figure out what to do with it.
Juna [00:12:01] As you were saying that, I was just thinking that when you're little, a lot of the time the cooking you do is cookies and cakes and things, right? Like that's the only time adults are like, do you want to make this with me? Is when it's like a baked good for some reason, right? Which is just an interesting thing to point out, because obviously that's not the thing that you would want to be giving them life skills to be able to do.
Eddie [00:12:20] So there was another one that I heard, where you invite the kid to shop the rainbow and you go through all the colors and like, let's find something. What is it? Red, orange, yellow.
Sally [00:12:29] And that's a great.
Eddie [00:12:30] Idea, and I'm going.
Sally [00:12:31] To steal it.
Eddie [00:12:32] Please. I read somewhere else, so I'm just I'm just handing it off to.
Juna [00:12:38] Better hope blueberries are in the store, because if they're looking for something blue.
Eddie [00:12:41] There's not too many going to be able to find it, right? That's so cool. And what other advice do you give to families about? I mean, here's a tough one. You could, have your kid cooking and participating and presumably eating well. And, they get invited to a birthday party. What? Is there any specific advice or. And it's not a cooking birthday party either, right? You know, we're going to have the cake and the pizza.
Sally [00:13:10] I would say go for it.
Eddie [00:13:12] Go for it. Yeah.
Sally [00:13:13] We we don't have any negative messaging. So we don't say, don't do this, don't do that. And I think that, you know, you want to be able to live in the real world. Right. So I don't think you want to tell your kids when they're going to a birthday party that everybody else is enjoying something. Now, if your kid is only eating real food, but the cake may not taste that good, you know, particularly if it's store bought and it's super, super sugary, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't try to control that. And in fact, I think the secret is not to try to control what your kids are eating. The adults position should be. Here's the food. I'm offering it to you. Eat it or not. I don't believe in making kids take a bite. I know that a lot of people do who are sort of in my world that, you know, you have to taste it. If you came to my house for dinner and I made something and you were like, no thanks, I'm not going to say to you. Well, you have to take a bite, right? So I think you should try the liverwurst. Exactly like you should try.
Eddie [00:14:17] Oh my God.
Sally [00:14:19] You should treat kids the same way. And it's your job to offer the food. And it's their job to decide if they want to eat it or not. So when my kids were little, yeah, my rule was you can eat what I've made or. And this. I started it when they were two.
Eddie [00:14:36] Yeah.
Sally [00:14:37] Or you can go into the kitchen and you can get yourself some cottage cheese, plain yogurt or plain Cheerios. And I recently asked my daughter, who's 31, I was like, did I really do that? And she said, you did. And she said, you did not offer us anything particularly good. Maybe it was healthy. Yeah, yeah. But she said it was never worth it not to try what you made because it wasn't like, oh, goody, I'm going to have some hmhm plain yogurt.
Eddie [00:15:09] But it was still a choice.
Sally [00:15:10] It was still a choice. Right. And they almost always chose to try what I'd made. And I think also a lot of parents so picky when I first started chop chop. And I would go places and talk and at the end I would say any questions? Literally every question was around picky eating. And that's another thing is like don't make a big deal of it because as your children.
Eddie [00:15:35] Yeah yeah.
Sally [00:15:36] So you know you make a big deal of something. Then they, they get all this attention. The fact that it's negative attention doesn't matter.
Eddie [00:15:42] Attention is attention.
Sally [00:15:43] Attention is attention. Yeah. So if I don't eat broccoli and you make a big deal out of me not eating broccoli, I'm not touching that broccoli. Right. So it's just like okay you don't want to eat it. Move on.
Eddie [00:15:56] Got it.
Sally [00:15:57] And don't make anything special which is what I did. I didn't make anything special. I know a lot of parents who are like oh, if so, when I was 14, I became, I guess, a pescatarian, so didn't eat any meat, didn't eat any chicken, but I ate fish. So when I went to my grandparents, they would get me a lobster. I was like, I'm never touching meat again. This is the best thing ever.
Eddie [00:16:24] Right? Right.
Sally [00:16:25] They pampered me.
Eddie [00:16:26] Yeah, yeah.
Sally [00:16:27] So I think that's the thing to do when your kid isn't eating. What you've made is don't jump up and make them something. That's great.
Eddie [00:16:36] Okay, but the lobster was what their attempt to give you fish. Yeah, that was even more special. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Sally [00:16:44] I mean, it was fantastic. So I think a lot of parents are like, nobody cared that I was a vegetarian. Really. But I mean, if you care that your kid isn't eating something and then you give them something really special. What's the incentive for the kid to ever try what you're making?
Eddie [00:17:06] Got it.
Sally [00:17:06] So like mac and cheese, for instance, right? A lot of parents are like, well, I'll make mac and cheese. So the kid lives on mac and cheese. You probably don't really want them to do the though.
Juna [00:17:14] A lot of kids like that.
Eddie [00:17:15] Yeah, yeah.
Sally [00:17:16] And if they love mac and cheese. Yeah. Why are they going to try a salad?
Juna [00:17:20] No, that's all they eat. Like, I know kids that like the Nutella sandwich at lunch and then like spaghetti for dinner every day because they just won't eat, right. What everybody else is having. Yeah. I also think you are a very good cook. I don't know this, but I am pretty sure because you're a cookbook author, right? Yeah. What about for the parents that aren't good cooks, or don't like cooking or don't cook a lot, but they want their kids to eat well.
Sally [00:17:43] So what I would say to that parent is. Engage your kid, right? So learn how to cook with your child. Like, say, you know what? We're. Let's stop making mac and cheese all the time. Let's learn how to make whatever and do it with the child. You don't have to be an expert. But there also are a lot of really, really simple things that you can make that are healthy. And, you know, our recipes are not only tested by us, we have a board of kids who test them so we know they work. We have like an advisory board. So the kids write and say, this didn't work.
Eddie [00:18:22] I saw this on your website. The kids are.
Sally [00:18:24] Great, it's fantastic. And they're so real. They're like, you know, but I would just say do it with your child. But also there's so I mean, think about eggs, like anybody can cook an egg, you know, anybody can cook beans. You just have to have a few tricks. I don't make anything convoluted or fancy my food, even in chopped up. It's super simple. But even when I'm cooking at home, it's simple. And and honestly, anybody can do it.
Eddie [00:18:58] And it's cheaper.
Sally [00:19:00] You can't convince me that junk food is cheaper than real food.
Juna [00:19:05] Yeah. Can you talk about that? I think a lot of people do think it saves money to like just get McDonald's or something.
Sally [00:19:09] So once you have I mean obviously you have to have the ingredients. But I mean, I guess if you're eating, you know, the most expensive cheeses and the most expensive sirloin and all that, that's one thing. But it's I had a broccoli is what, $3? Yeah. You know, and had a broccoli is enough for depends on who's eating it. But 2 to 4 people. And you've got to McDonald's I mean McDonald's isn't even that cheap anymore.
Eddie [00:19:37] Yeah.
Sally [00:19:38] You know.
Juna [00:19:39] It's not nothing is.
Sally [00:19:40] Nothing. Exactly. Nothing is. And so you know you've got to get to McDonald's and so you're spending time and money. to get there. Now granted you don't have to clean up which is a great plus right. But I think once you start to have the ingredients in your refrigerator and you're not running out to get the staples. It's less expensive.
Juna [00:20:03] Another thing that we also get a lot is it seems like in poorer neighborhoods there's less food literacy. And cooking is taught less than in wealthier neighborhoods. have you guys seen that with Chop Chop and yes. How do you combat that?
Sally [00:20:23] 80% of our copies go into snap. So I think that there's a real effort to, you know, in the government and not just the government, but I think in a lot of, I think in health care is to address that. And the issue of no grocery stores, food deserts, food swamps, all that is real. The thing about eating real food is you feel better. You know, maybe you don't have that moment of like, oh, this salty, sugary thing tastes fabulous. But if you spent a week eating McDonald's and other I don't mean to just pick on McDonald's, but you know, Burger King would ever.
Juna [00:21:10] Call them all out. And. Right.
Sally [00:21:12] If you if you just ate like that for a week versus eating real food for a week, you're gonna feel better. And it doesn't have to be organic. Again, we're very focused on low income. So like we're not saying eat an organic carrot. We're saying eat a carrot. And I think that so I get migraines. I stopped eating refined sugar about 12 years ago. So like I haven't had a cookie. I haven't had a pie, I haven't had a cake. Well because I saw a correlation with my migraines and my I still get migraines but they're less severe. They're less frequent. It makes a huge difference. But so to me at this point now, the things that I consider sweet, you know, you can change it. My point really is you can change all that. You know, you're used to eating super sugary, super salty things, and then you stop doing it. And then after a while it's like, oh my God, this carrot is tastes like sugar to me.
Eddie [00:22:12] We'll be right back with Sally Sampson from Chopped Up Family magazine. Food We Need to Talk is funded by a grant from the Ardmore Institute of Health. The home of Full plate Living. Full Plate living helps you add more whole plant based foods to meals you're already eating. These are foods you're already familiar with apples being strawberries and avocados. It's a small step approach that can lead to big health outcomes. Full Plate Living includes weekly recipes and programs for weight loss, meal makeovers, and better blood sugar management. Best of all, Full Plate Living is a free service of the Ardmore Institute of Health. Sign up for free at Full Plate Living Dawg. And we're back with Sally Sampson from Chop Chop Family magazine. Woo!
Juna [00:23:09] I have to say something about, men. Sorry.
Eddie [00:23:14] I've got to say sorry.
Juna [00:23:17] I've just noticed this is more common with men. I don't think this is like only men. I will just say, on average, I think it is more common with men. There's a lot of adult males I know, like grown men in their mid 20s, late 20s or whatever, that literally all they eat is pasta because they don't know how to cook and it's insane. So I feel like this is so important to learn as a a young kid, because basically their moms are always cooking for them. And they went to college. I went to the dining hall and they are an adult. They live on their own and they just make pasta on toast.
Sally [00:23:49] And they probably don't know how to do their laundry either.
Juna [00:23:51] No.
Eddie [00:23:52] Well, this speaks to several issues. Oh, wait, Eddie, I forgot you do like this. Oh, yeah. You said you were like this. So, when I was in medical school, I may or may not have, on every Sunday night, cooked an enormous fat of, brown rice.
Juna [00:24:09] Yeah.
Eddie [00:24:09] Arguably a little bit better than the pasta. A little bit better. Yeah. And then. And I may or may not have had a large fat of, tomato sauce that I would put on top of it, and then I, I, I like to I'd like to remember that I change the kind of cheese that I would put on top of that.
Juna [00:24:25] Oh my.
Eddie [00:24:26] God. And I don't recall any vegetables being included. Or tomato sauce. This is a vegetable.
Juna [00:24:34] According to the U.S. government, ketchup is right.
Eddie [00:24:36] So. Yeah. Okay. So what's your point?
Juna [00:24:40] I just like I think it's really important to learn to cook when you're young. My family, when my parents met at work and stuff, like, we basically had to cook all the time if my parents were at home and we would help make stuff at home. And also, like, we never went out to eat because it was like a special occasion thing would only happen once every couple months or on a birthday or something like that. So just 99% of the meals that we had at home were cooked. And I feel like I live like that as an adult, because that's how I grew up. But I have friends. I mean, especially when they have fancy jobs, like they'll go out every single day, right? To buy something to eat. So I just think it's really important to learn how to cook.
Sally [00:25:16] I think it's really important. And I will tell you, I have a 29 year old son who cooks from scratch.
Eddie [00:25:21] Oh, wow. That's incredible. Yeah. Okay. That's amazing. What is he like to cook?
Sally [00:25:26] Well, he's training for the marathon.
Eddie [00:25:28] Oh, wow.
Sally [00:25:29] So he eats a lot of chicken. You know, he's focused on.
Juna [00:25:33] Good chicken recipes because I'm trying so hard to eat more chicken. And I cannot.
Sally [00:25:37] Go to the chop chop website.
Juna [00:25:38] Okay, I'm going to go. I'm serious. I'm, like, fighting for my life, you guys. I think Chicken Taco.
Eddie [00:25:43] Bell will connect to the Chop Chop website in our show notes, but give it to us now. Oh yeah.
Sally [00:25:48] Okay, it's chop chop family.org.
Eddie [00:25:52] Okay. One of the things that it makes me think of as we critique the male habits, is that there was an article that some, colleagues actually of mine wrote famously saying that what we gave up when home economics disappeared from the curriculum. Oh, so, you know, back in the day. Yeah. There was a class.
Juna [00:26:11] Yonder a year called.
Eddie [00:26:13] Home Economics. And they would teach things like, this is a checkbook. This is how you balance things. Oh, there's a new thing called a credit card. Here's how you like, you actually learn financial literacy as well as, when the button falls off your shirt, you can put it back on.
Juna [00:26:30] No. You know what? Controversial statement? I think these classes are really needed. Guys. I know how to sew. I like when I had to do my taxes for the first time, I was like, what? I don't know, health insurance. I think I.
Eddie [00:26:41] Just like cooking was in there. Yeah. Was in there. Yeah. And and somehow we lost it along the way.
Sally [00:26:46] So life skills.
Eddie [00:26:47] Life skills. So it's chop chop and it's helping. You mentioned also with financial literacy.
Sally [00:26:52] Yeah. We have a column called called Kitchen Cash. So it's math and finance in cooking. So like we might say okay so you have $20. You go to the grocery store, you have to buy this, this, this or here's the recipe, you know, how do you spend your money? What do you have at the end? It's fairly simple, but it is also, do you buy the big one that costs less to do a little one? It's just all sorts of things around that.
Juna [00:27:19] With $20 today, you could buy like a pint of strawberries.
Eddie [00:27:21] Yeah.
Sally [00:27:23] Yeah, exactly.
Eddie [00:27:24] But I mean I think it's.
Sally [00:27:26] You know, I think that is also one of the things that's really fun about cooking is you could talk about it in a math.
Eddie [00:27:32] Class.
Sally [00:27:33] Doing that, you can talk about it in a science class. You can talk about emulsification, fermentation. Why does popcorn pop, you know, you can do all those things. Cultural literacy, you know, here's what they do in this country. Here's what they do in that country. So I think that, you know, we actually do curriculum and some of the curriculum doesn't have to be done in a kitchen. You can just talk through it. And then maybe that's aspirational or inspirational and. Then when you're in the kitchen, you go, oh, you know what? I remember that we learned about emulsification and wow, I want to watch something emulsify. I'm going to make salad dressing.
Eddie [00:28:15] Okay.
Juna [00:28:16] One time we had one of our listeners write into us and say that her teenage son or daughter, I don't even remember. I'm sorry. I feel like I'm picking on men. Her teenager.
Eddie [00:28:26] Was may or may not have been a male that.
Juna [00:28:30] Was basically refusing to eat any of the food she cooked and just would buy frozen pizzas and keep them in the freezer and cook them every night because he was an athlete and he, like, didn't have time to make food or whatever, and he just refused. You just want to have frozen pizza. And she was saying, partially like she was frustrated that he was eating that way. And partially she was also frustrated that he had frozen pizza in the household time, because then she would end up eating frozen pizza because it made. Anyways, I guess my question is, do you think teenagers are different because they kind of have more independence?
Sally [00:29:03] How do you I do think they're different. Yeah.
Juna [00:29:06] I mean, get around that.
Sally [00:29:07] I think. So when my kids were teenagers and they wanted, let's say, frozen pizza, I wouldn't buy it. Like I'm not going to support a thing that I don't support. But I let them bring it into the house. My feeling is they have their own money at this point. You know, it goes back to the same thing. I don't think it works to try to overly control how someone eats it usually, you know, comes back at.
Eddie [00:29:39] You.
Sally [00:29:39] I do think teenagers are different because they, they have their own money, they have cars they can get on busses. I mean you know before kids have that kind of autonomy, you can control it more just because you're the one that like there was a woman who came to me and she said, you know, I'm so frustrated. My kids will only eat frozen meatballs and something else and something else. They were two years old. They said, two year old twins. And I was like, are they doing the grocery shopping? So, you know, she's frustrated, but she's still feeding them food. She doesn't want them to eat.
Eddie [00:30:17] So. Right, right. That's so be a parent.
Sally [00:30:20] Exactly.
Eddie [00:30:21] Yeah.
Juna [00:30:21] Yeah, I know that makes sense. What do you think about, like, having snacks and stuff in the house? I know different guests. Arts have had, like, different kinds of ideas. Like, some people are like, I just don't keep ice cream in the house. And when we want ice cream, we'll go out for it to a place. And other people have been like, no, you have to learn to like, live with it in the house and like have it.
Sally [00:30:39] It's an interesting question. Here's what I found when they came home from school. On the kitchen table. I would put hummus and, like, cut up vegetables and fruit. They walked in the door. They were hungry. They thought it was great, right? If I didn't do that, they probably would have picked slightly less things. But like we had ice cream in the house, we really didn't have much. I mean, we certainly had things that weren't hummus and. You know, but I think that also is like a thing if you want, you know, when kids come home from school they come home camp, they come home from athletics, put the food out and then put enough so that they have choices. So it's not like it's just carrots and hummus. Like with these two year old twins. I did an experiment with them. They wouldn't eat vegetables. So I went and I got a bunch of really interesting dips. They were all healthy, but I didn't talk about the vegetables with them. I talked about the dips. I was like, oh, this one is. And they were so little. Maybe by the time I was doing this with them, they were three. But I was like, oh, this one is, you know, this and this, and here's how you eat it. They were eating cauliflower and.
Eddie [00:31:51] Just to pick up.
Sally [00:31:52] Exactly. And the mom was like, oh my God, they've now had more vegetables in this sitting than they had in their whole life. So I think some of it is, I guess positive manipulation. You know, you put out also they feel they have choices.
Juna [00:32:09] Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. I, I've heard this before with kids like do you want to go to bed now or in five minutes or whatever.
Sally [00:32:14] Exact words. Do you want to wear the blue pants or the green pants.
Juna [00:32:18] Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Eddie [00:32:19] Well this is important. This is selling a car. You sell settle the larger issue on a smaller point. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Red or blue. Right. Either way, you're going to bed.
Sally [00:32:28] Exactly.
Eddie [00:32:29] Yeah. Exactly. So it's character cauliflower either way. You're right. You're having a vegetable. And because there's no chips out to pick up the.
Juna [00:32:37] So, just before we end it, can you tell everyone again how they can get to chop chop?
Sally [00:32:42] Sure. Our website is Chop Chop Family dawg.
Juna [00:32:46] Perfect. And if you want to hear more of our conversation with Sally, we're going to be talking more about cooking and maybe some cooking advice from a cookbook author. You can head over to The Talk. So go to food. We talked com slash membership to listen there. And thank you so much for coming in.
Sally [00:33:01] Always a pleasure is lots of fun.
Eddie [00:33:02] Thank you.
Juna [00:33:05] Thank you so much to Sally for coming on today's episode. We will link to Chop Chop on our website and in our show notes. You can find us on Instagram at food. We need to talk. I will hopefully be sharing some of the thing, that's all.
Eddie [00:33:17] Oh, that would be great. Yes.
Juna [00:33:18] Yeah, I'm going to try to share it on Instagram guys. You can find me at the official Yuna and Instagram and Yuna Jada on YouTube and TikTok. You can find Eddie.
Eddie [00:33:26] Back in the kitchen trying to cook a little bit more after this episode.
Juna [00:33:30] Who food We Need to Talk is produced by me and distributed by.
Eddie [00:33:35] Our mix engineer is Rebecca Seidel.
Juna [00:33:38] We were co-created by Carey Goldberg, George Hicks, Eddie Phillips and me.
Eddie [00:33:42] For any personal health questions, consult your personal health provider to find out more. Go to food. We need to talk.com. Thanks for listening.
