The Science of Increasing Your Life Satisfaction
In this episode, we dive into the fascinating world of positive psychology—not just thinking happy thoughts, but the actual science of what makes life worth living! We’re joined by Dr. Liana Lianov, founder of the Global Positive Health Institute, to explore how boosting your happiness, resilience, and sense of purpose can literally improve your health. We also take the five-question test that reveals how satisfied you are with your life—spoiler: one of us crushed it, and one of us… did not. Plus, we break down simple, science-backed ways to bring more joy, gratitude, and meaning into your daily routine (even if you're stressed and busy). If you’ve ever wondered how to thrive—not just survive—this episode is for you!
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Eddie: You know, you know, this show focuses on a lot of health behaviors and how they can improve your quality of life.
Juna: Yes, Eddie, I know. Eat a well balanced diet that's mostly plants and exercise three to six times a week, resistance training and cardiovascular training. And we have to sleep a high quality eight hours a day and we have to have good relationships and you have to meditate.
Well, you have been paying attention. It's almost like a hostess podcast.
Eddie: And we have covered a lot of those topics, but I'm talking about a different way to improve your life. Oh! Eddie, are you talking about
Juna: breathwork? No. Eddie, are you talking about, um, meditation? Not
Eddie: today. Not today. We, we, we've covered that one.
Okay,
Juna: okay, okay. I know. We're talking about saunas, cold plunges, walking outside. All great.
Eddie: They're all great. Yes. Those are all great things, but that's not what we're talking about today. Today! We are talking about positive psychology.
Juna: Whoa, what was that sound? It sounds like a really cool idea. What the heck is positive psychology? Wait a minute. Is it just thinking positive thoughts? Because I don't know if we can do a whole episode on think positive thoughts, Eddie. I'm sorry about that. Well,
Eddie: I'm going to challenge you on that because do you realize it is actually one of the most robust emerging fields of psychology?
To put it simply, positive psychology is the science. of what makes life worth living. Instead of just fixing what's wrong, it focuses on what helps people thrive. Things like happiness, resilience, gratitude, and purpose.
Juna: And I know you might be thinking, what does this have to do with my physical health, you guys?
Everything! Okay? If you're happy and you're grateful and you feel a sense of purpose, guess what? You're going to live longer and actually be healthier. And that's why it's a very important topic for this show. And can I just say, I would love to thrive because I have not been thriving recently. I've been feeling so, so, so run down and overworked and just stretched way too thin.
And i've just been like complaining about everything and i've been so I don't know. I just don't think i've been a pleasant person to be around
Eddie: Okay
Juna: guys today that is our mission So in today's episode, you're going to hear about all the things that you can do today Not just to avoid sickness or avoid mental illness, but actually to rise above even being neutral into the space of thriving and being happy and satisfied with your life and You're going to hear us talk about the five questions that you can ask yourself right now that will tell you how satisfied you are with your life.
Eddie: We get to answer them.
Juna: Eddie and I answer them. Uh, that's not a competition. It's not a competition. It's not a competition. But we will give you the scores. Somebody won. In a landslide, and I was like, what the heck, man? So take a guess who you think won that competition. But you can ask yourself these questions.
You'll hear Eddie and I answer these questions. And most importantly, you're going to learn all the practices you can start doing today to thrive in your own life.
I'm Yuna Yata,
Eddie: and I'm Dr. Eddie Phillips, associate professor at Harvard Medical School,
Juna: and you're listening to Food, We Need to Talk, the only health podcast that's scientifically proven to boost your mood more than the puppy videos on YouTube, just by listening.
First, let's start by shouting out one of our favorite Reviews of the week. First of all, I want to show some gratitude in today's theme of the episode. I want to show some gratitude to everybody who has left us a review. Thank you so much. If you're listening to this and you were a review, you know who you are.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you personally from Eddie and I, because we are so close to 2000. We are four reviews away. And that was our goal for the year.
Eddie: 1997.
Juna: Yeah, the year I was born. Oh, that's such a good
Eddie: year.
Juna: I was born in 95, guys. Don't tell anybody. Oh, close enough. Close enough. But we are so, so, so close.
So, we are very happy, very thankful. And if you want to put us over the finish line, guys, it's within, what's the, what do people say? Well, you,
Eddie: actually, if you want to write. Within spitting
Juna: distance? I don't like that. If you
Eddie: want to write four reviews, you can, you can show us. Yes, just
Juna: write four in a row, guys.
Yes. Just put one word in each. This podcast is good, and it'll be across four reviews. But anyways, Eddie, do you want to do the honor of reading this review?
Eddie: I would love to. This one comes from Isabelle K100, a review from a trauma therapist, five stars. This podcast offers such a beautiful presentation of science backed information and fun.
I am so grateful. Ooh, picking up on the theme. Ooh. Ooh. For the variety of specialists they host. As well as their helpful experience, knowledge, and authenticity. I am signing up for the newsletter and cannot wait to dig into the book.
Juna: Oh my god, thank you so much, Isabel! That is so nice and it makes me so happy that you actually mentioned our newsletter because I feel like the newsletter needs more love, you guys.
The newsletter is awesome. But, everybody knows, I've said this spiel a million times, but when you leave a review, not only do you make Eddie and I feel good Which
Eddie: is The prime objective.
Juna: Which is, that's the most important part, is that Eddie and I need a boost sometimes, you know? We're tired. We have our peanut butter Reese's cup, you know, in the studio.
And then, that perks us up a little bit, but then we read the review, and then we're like, Woo! We're like, flying. So anyways, thank you so much for that. But also, it tells Apple and the Overlords, the universe. The algorithm. Yes, it tells the gods of the podcast algorithm. that the show is good, so thank you to every single person who chooses to leave us a review.
And Eddie, actually,
Eddie: I wanted to talk about the newsletter because if you're ever listening to us, sometimes at 2. 0 speed, which is impossible to listen to, but if you're listening to us and you're saying, Oh my God, I wish I had written this all down, but I'm driving and I can't do two things at once where I, uh, or they tell me I shouldn't do that.
Oh my God. And what was that algorithm? What was that? You know, the Parma thing that you'll hear about. Don't worry. Deep breath. Deep breath. It's all in the newsletter. And the newsletter will arrive free to you. Without advertisements. No spam. All you have to do, no spam. We just want to get the information out to you.
You can share it with folks. You just go to foodweneedtotalk. com forward slash email. And you sign up and it'll be in your inbox.
Juna: And guys, I get a lot of emails from people saying like, how do I sign up for the newsletter? How do I sign up for the newsletter? Which is funny to me because it actually takes a lot more work to send us an email than it does to sign up for this newsletter.
So you just go to foodweneedtotalk. com slash email like Eddie said, or if you click on our show notes there's also always a link to sign up for the newsletter there. And one more thing I could not resist because we have an unprompted Unsolicited, unprovoked review of our newsletter. How cool is that? I mean, we've been like, We've never asked for it!
We've never asked for it, we've pushed the reviews on the podcast. I've never said, hey guys, what do you think of our newsletter? You know, I'm just like, oh yeah, some people read it, they like it. But Charlie actually went out of his way to comment on one of our newsletter articles. Oh my gosh. So, yeah, Eddie, do you want to read that out?
Alright, I want to
Eddie: share this. I don't see enough appreciation for this newsletter. Seriously, this, that's him singing, not me. Seriously, this is a huge lifesaver. for people like me who don't have the habit of note taking. Everything's summarized neatly, easy to understand, and most importantly, it's much easier to send this to my friend or my parents and have them read it, which, busy as they are, are much more preferred over the podcast episodes.
Oh,
Eddie (2): but the podcast
Eddie: episodes are a lot of fun, you might want to tell them. Please, please, please. Please keep these coming. And then it looks like, uh, is that supposed to be a smiley face on its side? Whatever. Yes. There's an emoji that is not computing with me. Okay. Yeah.
Juna: I get the smiley face. Okay. Charlie, thank you so much.
That was. So nice of you to write that because that made me feel good about taking all this time to do the newsletter. And I have to say, guys, the newsletter is pretty bomb. It's basically like a cheat sheet for the podcast episode. We summarize all the important concepts. It has little headers. It has, you know, to dos you can take out from the episode.
So again, if you want to sign up, you can go to foodweneedtotalk. com slash email, or you can click the link in our show notes. And now to the episode. So today we are going to be talking to Liana Leonov, who is the founder and president of the Global Positive Health Institute and assistant professor at RCSI, Center of Positive Health Science, and a personal friend.
Well, and
Eddie: colleague of mine, and our relationship goes back to 2009 when Liana wrote, uh, what was a seminal article in the field of lifestyle medicine. Uh, defining the field and we published it in JAMA.
Juna: Oh my god, cool. Um,
Eddie: and Liana will talk about the global positive health institute and we'll link to it in our show notes.
And you know, you may or may not know that I'm on the board of directors for, for, for GPHI. Someone put you on
Juna: the board of directors? You're very important. I'm,
Eddie: yes, I was afraid you were going to say I was bored.
Juna: No.
Eddie: No, no, um, and I'm, so I'm deeply into what we're going to be talking about today, which is positive psychology and positive health.
Juna: Okay, well, Eddie, thank you for the incredible introduction, and Dr. Leonov, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode.
Liana: Thank you for having me. Excited to chat about this, uh, topic I'm so passionate about.
Juna: So the first question we want to start off with is super broad because most people listening to this have no idea what positive psychology is.
And I have to admit to you, I was a psychology major in undergrad, and I think I took one class in positive psychology, but I actually also don't remember exactly what it was. So if you could tell everybody listening and me, what exactly is positive health and positive psychology?
Liana: Well, thank you for that question.
It is a great place to start because most people have heard about psychology, but they may have not heard about positive psychology, or they might think if they're uninitiated into the area of positive psychology that it's about. positive thinking, and it's not really that. Uh, so in the 1980s, Dr. Martin Seligman, who was at the University of Pennsylvania, and he was heading up the president of the American Psychological Association, was, uh, talking to his colleagues and saying, you know, psychology focuses just on the negative.
You know, we're looking to help. Fix people's weaknesses, mental health issues, emotional health issues, which is great. It's all important, but there's just so much more to human beings. We can go from that baseline of not having some of those troubling mental and emotional health issues to something much more to becoming our best selves, to flourishing.
to thriving. And so that spawned at least the modern era of positive psychology. Now actually positive psychology is based on ancient wisdoms, uh, back thousands of years. So it's, it's, it's not really a new idea. It's just been repackaged for our modern society. And it's really about looking at our strengths, looking at our positive influences in our lives, and actually focusing on those because that allows us to really flourish in difficult times.
So everyone needs to have positive psychology in their lives. And I'm sure we'll get into how to do that. But bottom line is it's becoming our best selves.
Eddie: And it sounds like Liana, almost like a metaphor or picture I have in my head is that whereas psychology, as Martin Seligman said, was focusing on the negative, it's almost like the deficit, so you're kind of like down in the valley, and this looks like we're climbing up into the mountains, that we're trying to get some extra space, and I love the concept of focusing on our strengths.
Liana: Exactly. I often talk about, and others talk about, that General psychology focuses on going from minus 10 to zero to your baseline, to your normal self, quote unquote, but positive psychology then helps us to go from that baseline to something so much more from zero to plus 10.
Eddie (2): And there's
Liana: so much that we can do to build up that piggy bank so that when difficulties arise.
Yeah, we go back down, but we may still be well above the zero mark and, uh, we all need that these days with so many stressors in our lives.
Eddie: So Liana, there are, uh, my gosh, there's a very large diagnostic statistical manual number five, plus, plus whatever the DSM 5, uh, with all of its variations that just by chapter and verse goes with all of the symptoms of what we might call negative psychology.
Or psychiatric illness or mental health. Do we have something similar to know when we're in the positive realm? Like what are the symptoms of someone who's at plus 10? What do they look like to us?
Liana: Great. I wish we had some kind of a diagnostic manual of a positive. Health, emotional health, mental health.
Wouldn't that be lovely? But that doesn't exist to answer this question. How do we know that we are flourishing, thriving, being our best selves? What are some of those conditions that signal to us that we're on the right track? Of course, the field of positive psychology, the research Aspects of positive psychology have been asking these questions for quite a few years, and there are many answers in the form of measures.
So positive psychology researchers have been testing and vetting various measures. Questions that one could answer, and then you get some kind of score and it gives you a result about where you stand along that positive health continuum. Sometimes we refer to as happiness, but, uh, we can talk about that happiness doesn't really fully include everything, uh, because within positive psychology, we also include so many other positive emotions like hope and meaning and life.
purpose. And actually these various researchers have started to develop different scales and measures for these various subcomponents. So that being said, when I give talks and, and recommend this to family, friends, to other colleagues and practitioners who say, give me a simple answer. Um, I say, let's use, I recommend using the satisfaction with life scale.
And that was created by a leading researcher in positive psychology, Ed Diener, who spent many years vetting down to five questions that can be answered even down to three questions. And, uh, basically they're very general questions about how close. To my ideal life. Do I feel right now kind of basically how overall satisfied we are with our lives.
And we're evaluating that through our brain, through our prefrontal cortex, where we step back and we survey the land. And then we answer these questions and that has a more enduring result than, for example, if I were to ask you, how happy are you at this moment? Uh, how joyful are you? And that can be very fleeting.
And then how do you feel the rest of the time? So we need to piece all that together. And what's wonderful about satisfaction with life is that we can actually experience that even while sometimes we're struggling with the factors in our lives, it could be. Mental illness, medical illness, uh, physical capacities that we feel may be, uh, negating our positive experiences and yet they can be meshed in.
So we can find elements of life satisfaction, even while we have struggles. And that's what's so wonderful about this field of positive psychology. So many times physicians and others say, Oh, you know, that's Soft stuff that's over and above what I'm dealing with here. And I'm dealing with patients who are, uh, who have cancer, have heart disease, they have some real world problems.
And, uh, this fluffy stuff might really not relate to what they're dealing with. But I say, no, actually, it's absolutely important that everyone, again, no matter what your underlying conditions are, that you can experience some amount of becoming your best self. And so positive psychology is relevant for.
Everybody.
Juna: Okay, so I love this idea that we can actually measure our overall satisfaction with life with only five questions, because I would think it'd be like 500 questions, um, but that's also really scary because I'm pretty sure whenever I take this, I get a really low score because I'm always like, I should be doing more.
Eddie: Yuna, what if Liana reads the questions and you answer them? Yeah,
Juna: yeah. Okay, so do you have the questions there to actually read them for the person listening and for me and Eddie? Can
Eddie: you sign the release?
Liana: All right. So here they are. So this is the satisfaction with life scale developed by Dr. Ed Diener, who spent a number of years vetting it down to these. Five statements that can be predictive of one's life satisfaction and it's according to what's called a Likert scale, which means you, you give each statement a score of one strongly disagree all the way up to seven strongly agree.
And so there are five of them. So seven times five, that means your total absolute a hundred percent score would be 35 points.
Eddie: We already have a competition like building up in our heads here. All right, fire one ready.
Liana: So the first one is, in most ways, my life is close to my ideal.
Eddie: Doo, doo, doo, doo. Okay, I want everybody
Juna: to do this who's listening.
Start adding up your score. Eddie and I are going to do it too, and then if we feel comfortable we'll share at the end, okay?
Eddie: Oh, I think we should just answer right away.
Juna: Okay, ready? You go first.
Eddie: Um, I'm going to give myself a six on that.
Juna: Damn, okay, I'm at a four.
Liana: Okay.
Eddie: All right.
Liana: The second one, the conditions of my life are excellent.
Eddie: What? I am, um, I'm pretty, um, happy with the conditions of my life. I mean, I'm, I'm interpersonal and having a loving family and great kids and a, a career. The world is. Gone nuts. But I'm doing all right here. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna take all the marbles on that one.
Juna: You you're gonna put a seven? I
Eddie: I'm, I'm like
Damn. I'm also putting
Juna: a four. I'm also
Liana: putting a four on that . Okay. The third one. I am satisfied with my life. .
Juna: Oh no, I know what you're gonna say. Are you gonna say a six or a seven?
Eddie: I'm. I'm, you know, I'm a lot older also, you know, ,
Juna: I guess so. Is it youth? I'm just kidding. I'm also a four on this, guys. I'm like a solid four and everything.
Okay. All
Eddie: right. Yeah. Let's, I'm, I'm, are you a
Juna: six or seven? I'm, I'm,
Eddie: I'm, I'm knocking 'em out of the park here. Yeah, I feel good.
Liana: Oh my God. Okay. Keep going. Wonderful. Okay, the fourth one. So far I have gotten the important things I want in life. Oof, I'm a three on that.
Juna: Guys, I'm depressed after this. This is the life dissatisfaction survey.
I to say.
Eddie: I'm, I'm, I'm feeling pretty good here. Keep going. Wait,
Juna: are you a seven? I don't know if I'm good at
Eddie: six. I mean, there's things I want to achieve. I'm not, I'm not retiring.
Liana: Okay, last one. If I could live my life over, I would change almost nothing. Oh, I'm like a seven on
Juna: that for sure.
Eddie: Oh, that's good.
So I'm gonna give myself like a five on that.
Juna: Oh, really?
Eddie: Yeah. I think
Juna: this also has to do with our age.
Eddie: Yeah, yeah. I have like, you know. I feel like
Juna: you've had more time to make mistakes. Oh,
Eddie: absolutely. I've taken full advantage of the time to do that.
Juna: Okay, so now my next question. So like, obviously my score is way lower than Eddie's, but I don't know what the average, do you know what the average is for this?
Liana: Well, I don't know in terms of the average that, uh, the population out there scores, but as you can see from this scale of five statements, seven points each, a total of maximum of 35, that if you got a score of 20 or above, at least you're somewhere middle end to very good.
Juna: Wait, so my next question is, do you think that this does have to do with age?
Because I've read a lot that like people in their twenties have like the lowest life satisfaction and like the closer you get to retirement and afterwards, the more life satisfaction you have. Is that true?
Liana: Good question. So I don't know that I can talk to it specific to the satisfaction with life scale.
Yeah. Uh, there probably might be studies that have looked, uh, at different age groups, but there are other studies that have shown that individuals, when they get into their fifties and sixties do tend overall to have greater life satisfaction.
Eddie (2): And
Liana: that kind of makes sense because you know, they're at that point, their kids are raised, they're probably not struggling to find another job.
Maybe they're getting ready to retire. Many reasons for that. Uh, some of those are conjecture and there's still more research going on. But yeah, certainly if you're, uh, in the younger years, twenties, thirties, uh, forties, you're, you have a lot of struggles, life struggles. And so it makes sense that if we compare groups, for justifying
Eddie: my
Juna: score.
And
Eddie: we'll revisit in years to come.
Juna: Yeah, we should revisit.
Eddie: Okay, I think this is a great time for us to take just a little break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more ways for you to live your life better. And by the way, if you're listening to this and you're thinking of a loved one or someone that you know that's actually going through a tough time, they just had a relationship breakup, they're having trouble at work, etc.,
they're in a rut, and you think, Ah, this might help them, please share the episode with them. It might change their lives. And we'll be right back.
And we're back with Dr. Liana Leonov. Liana, as physicians, you and I and lots of our listeners are clinicians and we're trained in physical health, right? So we look at what's in front of us. And I also know, as we all do, from that negative mental health certainly impacts our well being, whether you're depressed, anxious, etc.
What's the literature on the positive emotions that we're talking about here? Like, is there, or can you help us with the science of, so I tell my patient to express their gratitude and to share three good things every evening. How does that actually impact us on a physiologic level?
Liana: They're absolutely very closely tied.
And, uh, there are a number of what we would call mechanisms of action that tie those together. Probably the most salient one that has to do with connecting with others and showing kindness. Practicing gratitude. Those are big elements of positive psychology. What happens in our bodies then is as we experience those emotions, we boost what's called our parasympathetic nervous system.
So that's a part of the autonomic nervous system. That's the opposite of the sympathetic nervous system, which people may know of as the fight or flight. So that's the stressor, right? So when we're feeling stressed, that sympathetic nervous system goes way up. But by practicing and experiencing these kinds of positive emotions, we're countering that with that parasympathetic nervous system, which is also called the tendon befriend, a part of our lives and our system.
And what is associated with that is we get lower blood sugars, lower blood pressure. Lower inflammation, like levels of cortisol, which causes inflammation and just so much more, particularly cardiovascularly with our hearts, there's a direct impact. Another construct in our heart health is called heart rate variability, and having more variability in our heart rate is a good thing.
And the parasympathetic nervous system increases that heart rate variability, and we can do that by connecting. Positively with others, having positive conversations, even just an authentic hello or a smile that's exchanged between people being kind, expressing gratitude are top of the list, but we can also do self kindness and self compassion when we're experiencing difficulties, we can think, Oh, well, what would I say to a friend and say those things.
Kind words to ourselves and that boosts our parasympathetic nervous system and helps us physiologically.
Juna: So what I'm hearing so far is that. It seems like these are practices that will help you to increase your positive emotions and your positive emotions can also carry over to your physical health.
Um, my question for you is, if somebody was answering the questionnaire that we just did and let's say like they got a similar score to me or maybe even a lower score than me, what do you think are the things they can start to do today? That will help increase their score.
Liana: Perfect question. What to do?
What are some of the what we call positive psychology based activities or in science, we would call them interventions. And there are many. And so in order for a beginner, To have a place to start. I really love the framework that was developed by Dr. Marty Seligman, the father and founder of positive psychology, which many may have heard, but if not, it's the acronym PERMA.
And I'll tell you what those letters stand for. And then we'll talk a little bit more about what that is, but P stands for positive emotions, E for engagement, R for relationships. M for meaning and a for accomplishment or achievement. So easy way. In fact, people who are very familiar with positive psychology, uh, it's become a verb, like, are you permitting today?
So are you, are you doing some of the activities in order to boost your positive emotions? And it's more than positive emotions. It's emotions of meaning as well. Right? So he don't, yeah. Pleasure for pleasure's sake, eudaemonia is meaning and that can be from hard work and from volunteering and taking care of sick family members in many ways.
And that also has some of the same physiologic effects that we talked about, but the P for positive emotions is things like joy, pride, hope. Optimism, gratitude, forgiveness. So as much as activities we can do to boost those emotions, that's great. The E for engagement is doing activities that put us in what's called flow, uh, from a positive psychology perspective.
That's when we're engaged in an activity, a hobby, maybe we're walking, running, playing a musical instrument, making beautiful art, gardening, so many things where we're just so involved. In that activity that we lose track of our environment. We lose track of time and where we are. It's a kind of meditation and meditative flow.
And usually it means we're concentrating in order to do a good job, but not so much so that it feels like, Oh, it's a difficult task, but not something that we have done a thousand times where it feels a little boring. It's that sweet spot, which is also called eustress, or the flow channel. So if we can engage in those kinds of activities that ask us to concentrate a little bit, but not too much, when we lose track of time and space, we are boosting that parasympathetic nervous system, and that does our bodies a lot of good, and we, uh, our brains release those.
Positive neurotransmitters. So that's great. So that's E for engagement, R for relationship, uh, that I talked to a little bit earlier, social connections, positive social connections, being kind to one another, listening and connecting, even just a very simple hello, that's authentic can boost our parasympathetic nervous system.
So it doesn't have to be just with family and friends, although that's important, family, friends, those are close to us are important, but this can happen with anyone. anywhere. It can be the grocery store checker, anyone we encounter throughout the day where there's a true authentic connection. And you know what I mean?
Cause you feel it. It goes both ways when it's truly authentic. So that's R for relationships, then M for meaning that I was alluding to earlier that eudaimonia is. So important. So what activities are we doing and our lives where we feel we're contributing in a meaningful way. And, uh, that has been shown to also help with people's, uh, follow through on taking care of themselves, physically following through with their health habits.
So with preventive services, people who have a higher sense of life purpose tend to, for example, if they need to go get their mammogram, they're more likely to get their mammogram. Also, people with a higher life purpose have, if they get sick, their hospital stays are actually shorter. And there's so much more.
So meaning is very important. And then lastly, a for achievement or accomplishment as human beings, we are driven to set some goals for ourselves and to achieve those goals. And we want to have lots of successes. So it's best if we set ourselves small goals, step by step and then celebrate. every success along the way to the ultimate goal.
And as we're celebrating our success towards our goals, of course, we're proud, and that's a positive emotion, and so much more. It just overall contributes to our well being. So there you have it. PERMA. Are you PERMAing today?
Eddie: So, I just want to share that when you started describing what this was, I was already in sort of this mindset of like, all right, how are you and I going to get to 35 and how are we going to get our, you know, our listeners, you know, to maximize and is this going to be a struggle?
And it's actually just the way you've beautifully described it. It seems like I'm calmed by the idea of that. Oh, if I connect with a few more people tomorrow, or if I kind of lean into achievement rather than. Somehow being embarrassed by it like it actually like I'm already feeling better. Just thinking about feeling better.
Juna: Well, can I disagree? No, I'm just thinking about like so many of the people listening to our podcast are for example parents of young kids and you know, they Do a job where it's like one in three people in America live paycheck to paycheck, right? Who are working adults. And so like somebody's at work all day and they come home and they have to take care of the kids and they have zero time for themselves and I experience a tiny fraction of this and I sometimes feel like I have literally no time like if I had to find time in my day.
to experience a positive emotion. Like, I don't even know where it would come in. You don't even like, where would I, when would I set aside time to, like, dedicate to positive emotion? Like, I, like, barely have time to, like, make my dinner or, I don't know, go on a walk. So, how do you tell people who, I think there's so many people, I mean, even with this way this country is going right now, right?
That like, they just feel this kind of like sense of dread all day or they're just so busy and their lives are so stressful. How can they also incorporate some of the practices you're talking about when it feels like you need extra time and space in your life for them?
Liana: Great question. It's a It's a very common question, because often we associate these kinds of activities with it taking a lot of time and taking away from what's already an over over a full life.
And the answer is that yes, some of these activities can Take time. Some of them are not even activities per se, they're really mindsets. So even at the end of a long day at work and you're coming through the door and the children are shouting and wanting your attention, you're exhausted. It's like, what are we going to have for dinner?
You don't need to do anything differently other than to just. Look at what is good in your life, that you have children, you have a home you have. And for some people they don't have a home or they don't have a family for those people. I say, if really your whole world is crumbling, then look to yourself.
And that's where a huge part of positive psychology is about our strengths. That, uh, even if the whole world is crumbling, you can look to yourself and say, Hey, I'm an honest person. I appreciate beauty. I'm a forgiving person. I am a leader in my communities, such as it is, whatever your strengths are. And also come at all of this, all of this from a place of self compassion, because life is hard.
Life throws a lot of curve balls at us. And so with positive psychology, we say we embrace all those emotions. It's not about always being positive. Sometimes we're guilty. We're ashamed. We're scared. We're bored. We're just, we've had it. Uh, we start there. First order of business is self compassion and then slowly redirect our mindset to, okay, let's look as I'm fixing dinner, washing the dishes, whatever it might be, walking to work, just reflect for a second.
What's going well in my life?
Juna: This makes so much sense to me because I feel like there are people that outwardly have everything but are miserable and there are people who like outwardly have so much less but are so happy. So, I feel like it obviously has to do with the way they're thinking about their life more than like what they actually have or haven't achieved or like the amount of money they have or the amount of resources they have.
Um, so I feel like it makes a lot of sense.
Eddie: And I, you know, I'll just jump in that when I see patients as I work at the VA, their folks, I, before they come in, I'm reading through a list of like 17 problems they have. And it's everything from mental health to they're seeing me for physical pain. I'm like, Oh my gosh.
I, I'm expecting to see this morose person kind of drag in because they've got the weight of the world on them and they come in and just like you're saying, you know, like, it's not what they have. It's sort of the attitude. It's
Juna: their attitude. Yeah. And, and
Eddie: just sort of like, I asked them like, so what's going well?
And they're like, I'm blessed. I'm like. Okay, like, you know, you know, how so and it goes, you know, I've got my family around I've served my country I've got a doctor here listening to me I you know, I'm looking forward to whatever it is it might be Sunday services or or walking their neighbor's dog because The neighbor can't walk their dog right now and they're there of service in their community and I'm always struck by it and then you flip it around and there are people who have So much, and yet, you know, the striving is so great that, you know, objectively, they're miserable.
Juna: So how does someone who has, I'm not going to say a bad attitude, but let's say they have, like, legitimate things they can complain about in their life, but also objectively have a good life, how can they begin to change their attitude or actually, like, feel gratitude for what they have? Because, like, I personally, for example, have tried gratitude journaling, and I'll do it for, like, I don't know, seven days where you write down three things a day, but I just feel like I feel gratitude in those two or three minutes, and then I kind of forget about it for the rest of the day.
And so like, how do you ingrain that into how you feel the whole day?
Liana: The question about how do we keep our mindsets on what's going well throughout the day is a good one. And, uh, again, it's probably not realistic. We have fleeting motions and we have emotions all over the place. We're human beings. Uh, so again, back to that, uh, self compassion, but redirecting.
It's kind of like if any of our listeners are, do, uh. Meditation or some mindfulness practice, right? Your mind wanders off and you have to redirect it back to the here and now. Uh, so a bit of that kind of approach is a positive psychology approach to redirect to the extent possible. And it's funny that you give the example of the gratitude journaling, because that actually brings up another.
issue that we have with positive psychology and the research behind it. There's so much more research we need to do. And, uh, so things that are commonly cited like gratitude practice and positive psychology, uh, have had to be delved into in more detail, uh, because every one of these kinds of activities, there's a, uh, what we call sort of person activity fit.
Uh, so, so different kinds of activities work for different people. And not only that, but certain activities, gratitude practice, actually there's an art to it. And there's a, what we, what we would call a dosing, right? Like a medication dose. So if you're doing a gratitude journal, Every night or, you know, for seven nights a week, it's going to start to be rote.
It's going to maybe start feeling boring. If you're going to feel resentful and you're going to end up with negative emotions out of the process. So, no, no, no.
So you have to find the right dosing. Now, in general, there was a study by a well known. positive psychology researcher at UC Irvine, uh, Sonja Lubomirsky, who found that maybe a couple of times a week is a sweet spot for most people to practice gratitude, but, uh, different strokes for different folks.
You've got to find the right activities, the right frequency that works for you in terms of actual activities. And then again, If you're just so overwhelmed and busy, then it's more the mindset and redirecting the mindset and forgiving yourself. If you wander off and start focusing again on what you're ashamed or guilty of, or worried about and say, whoop, yep, there I am being human again.
Let me see, let me take a deep breath. And as I'm continuing on throughout my day, Uh, let me see if I can catch a glimmer of some sunshine or, uh, enjoy the, the purple in that flower that's in the garden as I'm rushing off to work or whatever it might be.
Juna: In our bonus episode, we are going to talk in detail about a bunch of other practices you can do besides gratitude.
So stay tuned for that over on our membership. But I also wanted to ask you on this episode, do you think that it's like a muscle that you can train to. take your brain back to the positive? Um, like, can it be easier and easier the more you do it? I
Liana: love that analogy. Like a muscle. Yes, it's a positive psychology muscle that we're building.
And the more you do it, the easier it becomes, of course. Yes.
Eddie: As we start to wrap up, um, take us maybe to the current and hopefully the future of medical care. You know, what would a doctor's visit look like? Am I handing out a prescription and a gratitude journal, you know, alongside the cholesterol medication?
What does pain, what I expect will be a very positive view of the future in, in medicine and, and things that I can do differently when I go back to work tomorrow.
Liana: Yeah. So how can a healthcare professional. Leverage this beautiful science of positive psychology and day to day care. That's what, uh, that's what we do at the Global Positive Health Institute is help health professionals to figure this out.
And oftentimes the first question again is, wait a minute, is this going to take more time? I'm a busy health professional. I don't have more time.
Eddie: Is there, is there a code for it?
Liana: That's right. Is there a code I can bill for it? So my answer always is, well, at least you can start with some very simple questions as you're conversing with the patients, they come in, you can start on a positive note and say, Oh, what was the best thing that happened to you since the last time I saw you?
Or, at the end of a clinical visit, you can say, Hey, what was your favorite thing out of our conversation today? What was one good thing that happened today as we visited with each other? Uh, so that, for some health professionals, that's about all they can do. And keep in mind that that's not just for the sake of the patient, because you're already now starting a brief, positive dialogue.
Uh, positivity resonance is the clinical term, so it's benefiting you as a health professional by switching on that, uh, lens of, let me look at the world through that positive lens. And uh, so that's a place to start, but for health professionals that want to do more, we clearly are tasked with asking about stress and anxiety and depression with our patients.
And along with that, Why not ask the satisfaction with life scale or on an intake, add a few more questions about that. When we ask about other health habits of what we eat, how active we are, maybe ask, well, what are some other activities that you do that boost your positive emotions? And then as we're prescribing health habit changes and treatment plans, because we know people can really stay.
on task with various goals when they have an association of positive emotions with that task that we recommend. Hey, we just made a, a meal plan to help you lose weight. Now think about ways to incorporate your family or friends. And focus on how it's making you happy and it's meaningful to you that you're making this beautiful meal with them and helping yourself and helping them so it gives meaning to your world and so much more.
And I am hopeful that the future of medicine, we start to fully integrate these approaches for the benefit of our patients and ourselves.
Eddie: Amen.
Liana: Love
Juna: that. Well, thank you so much for joining us. This was an episode I personally really needed, so I'm really glad. It was very timely for me.
Eddie: As we've said before, the show is for you now.
Yeah, except
Juna: this was your idea, but you knew. This was
Eddie: my idea, because I thought you might need this.
Juna: Yes, yes. You could tell that I really needed this. So thank you so much for being with us. Thank
Eddie: you, Liana.
Juna: Thank you for having me. Take care, everyone. Thank you so much to Dr. Liana Leonov. We'll link to her work on our website.
If you want to hear our bonus conversation with Dr. Leonov, where we talked all about my horrible life. No, I'm just kidding. How much my life sucks right now. I'm just kidding guys. We talked about gratitude journaling. We talked about how actually being kind to others helps your own well being. Very counterintuitive.
And
Eddie: we had Dr. Leonov in her function as a doctor. I think talking you through Some of what will help you thrive despite a really trying time.
Juna: Yes, and flow states, which I'm really, really excited about. I love flow states. I think they're so cool. So we also got into the science of flow states and why they actually help with your well being.
So if you want to hear that, you can go to foodweneedtotalk. com slash membership or You can click the link in our show notes and remember everything in this membership, guys, goes to getting this podcast out there. It goes to paying the producers and the studios. So we appreciate every single person who chooses to support because it is literally, literally what keeps the show going.
You can find us on Instagram at food. We need to talk. You can find me on Instagram at the official Una and Una Jada on YouTube and TikTok, and you can find Eddie.
Eddie: Trying to maximize my PERMA score, of course.
Juna: Do you remember what PERMA stands for?
Eddie: Oh, uh Pop quiz!
Juna: You're not going to say it? No. Okay. Ha ha ha! Ahhhh! Exposed! Food We Need to Talk is produced by Rebecca Seidel and we are distributed by PRX.
Eddie: Our mix engineer is Rebecca Seidel.
Juna: We were created by Kerry Goldberg, George Hicks, Eddie Phillips, and me.
Eddie: For any personal health questions, please consult your health provider.
To find out more, go to foodweneedtotalk. com. Thanks for listening.
You know, I'm sorry.
